Posts by Lily Pie

310

Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 in

had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

:-).

Lily Pie

I would also like to add. If anyone is at a Pentecostal Church, and they are being harrassed about attending, or they are being told that speaking in tongues is *nessesary*. Then I advise you to keep away. This is not what a relationship with God is about.

You will know them by thier fruit. HAHA.... such a JW catch-phrase. But seriously check out the fruit of a congregation before you give them money or become too involved, and never let yourself become intimidated.

Good advise for all religious involvement.

310

Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 in

had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

:-).

Lily Pie

Anonymous4.

Well done for doing your research. I am a Pentacostal (AOG), I became one after studying watchtower publications. I promise you, that all *religions* are the same. They all are dogmatic and nasty in many respects all religions are CULT-like. Thats the human aspect... religion always magnifys humanity.. ugh....

But where do we draw the line? If you become a Jehovah's Witness, and then you choose to stop believing it, then you will be harrassed, and you WILL loose all your friends. (similar things can happen in other religions, but this IDEA is written in thier JW INSTRUCTION MANUAL). Jehovah's Witnesses also have enormous amounts of contempt and intolerance for other religions which is off-putting.

As I said, I am an AOG member, but I don't nessesarily agree with everything about the Trinity, I think *jehovah* should be reinstated into the Old Testament, but not the new testament, I don't think it matters if Jesus is called God or not, But he is the Way, this is biblical. Maybe we all will be living on paradise earth, I don't really care about that detail either. But I will say, Jesus is the WAY. the only way.... if you believe what the Bible says...

If you are really interested in The Truth of God, I encourage you to read your bible. You can even use the NWT together with say .. the ESV... The Bible is the sword of faith. Do not read the bible with help books, read it for yourself, the whole NT using a translation you are not familiar with.

I realised only yesterday, that letting yourself be bonded to *religion* whether Pentecostal, or the Watchtower, is completely contrary to the Truth of Jesus. You are tying yourself to laws , no freedom found there. Think about it. Jesus on the Cross. Paul went on and on and on about it. It must be important.

I think this is part of your God-Journey. Maybe you are connecting with God through your bible study. Spend some more serious time on this before you become baptised.

Ask a Jehovah's Witness, if there is ever a valid reason to leave The Truth. Regardless of what their answer is, In my experience, in thier eyes anyone who leaves, has left in order to commit sin, whether this is the truth of it or not.

Please PM me if you want further information on scriptural matters, or to discuss anything about the bible, or want some advice on having God without religion. I seriously AM NOT a fundamentalist in the Pentecostal Movement, though I really am into *knowing* God.

Good Luck to you with this.

37

Do Jehovah's Witnesses represent a less legitimate form of religious expression?

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

i am at a point where i tend to think all religions are rubbish.

the bible is not a book to lead one's life by and not deserving of much respect.

if jesus existed then the gospels are not an accurate picture of his life and even if the non-supernatural elements resembled a real person there is much to repudiate as there is to admire.. so what about comparing jehovah's witnesses to other faiths?

Lily Pie

Hi slimboy fat

This is a good question. I think, if an individual Jehovah's Witness chooses, of thier own free will to believe in the things the Watchtower teaches, then yes. It is a legitimate expression of faith.

If however someone is under *undue influence*(this is a legal definition that makes contracts null and void), and the ability for this to occur is actually written into the core of the beliefs and practices of the religious organisation in question - then no - it becomes less legitimate. The watchtower has a rigid centralized, top - down, style religious organisation. That encourages peer pressure to the point of bullying and shunning, in order to maintain its black and white world view with colourful generalizations. For some, this is acceptable I'm sure, for others it is spiritual abuse.

There are people in other religions around the world that are not expressing their true selves because of pscychological fear.

Then there are other religious groups that have less of this problem. You can usually tell a good one from a bad one, by it's fruit. HA HA.

anyway. In terms of legitimacy. I think that a religion becomes illigitimate when it borders on reaching the legal definition of using *undue influence*. I think an individual belief becomes illigitimate when an individual is harming themselves and becomes psychologically harmed, as defined by mental health professionals.

The standard of measure. should be the secular worlds measure.

Lily Pie

47

Jan Awake, stating JW's are only true religion

by lostsheep82 in

i haven't posted in a long time.

most trying to recover and still get my head straight, this religion when you find it's not the 'truth' is hard to move on sometimes.

my mom urgently needed to speak to me about a magazine that just came out.

Lily Pie

Just read Jan Awake.... for interest you know....

It's like reading Richard Dawkins (BTW I have no problem with athiests, just the *religious contemptuous athiest*). He too ires on about the ugliness of "religion"... All the while inspiring bigotry, divisiveness, intolerance, and most importantly - "contempt".

This is preaching to the choir at its best!!!!

The Watchtower publishes uninspiring crusades *against* the world. It makes them look ugly, and very very small minded. Good luck handing this out to householders.... It is nothing to be gleeful about. They should be ashamed.

Lily Pie

23

Birthdays - most logical explanation...

by bottleofwater in

can someone explain step by step why birthdays don't contradict the bible.. refuting the wts' evidence, including the terms explaining the account of birthdays in the book of job not referring to birthdays according to the wts' explanation?.

Lily Pie

So on topic for me. Why do I have a $100 gift in celebration for my wedding anniversary (this week). But no one comes to my Children's Birthday Party. I had an argument about this earlier this year, my message didn't sink in - clearly. No Bday to Anniversary is my motto. So hypocritical - bless them - they can't see it. I suppose it's a blessing, Cognitive Dissonance gives them Peace.

If Birthdays are actually pagan - I'm pretty sure Wedding Aniversaries are too. Actually anything anniversary related is pagan. The cross is pagan too - I suppose - maybe - oh my goodness this is just a hunch - the cross is the crudest drawing ever in the world - so its not surprising its been used before in other religions. Agh I HATE the pagan excuse. It's disgraceful. It's simply speculation with not fact attached to it at all!!!! Boycotting Xmas - Okay I get it - but Birthdays... C'mon ....

The thing that annoys me most about THIS one! is that this is the requirement that JW's are most likely to flout privately - but then go all out defending the WT postion. Examples of flouting privately --- hmm -- most commonly ---- participating in Work related Birthday celebrations while enforcing their children not to go to Bday Party's. It just looks bad.... And makes me angry! Can you tell?

BTW I'll continue to receive these Anniversary gifts - just to give satisfaction and joy to someone..... who really thinks its a nice thing they are doing....

17

Is field service a biblical requirement?

by Listener in

there are two classes of jws - the annointed/chosen ones/those with the heavenly hope and the great crowd/other sheep/those with earthly hope.

this makes it quite difficult to determine as to whether jesus was giving directions to either the annointed or both classes.

but the org does distinguish at times as to the authorities given to them (the annointed) and therefore the directions they may impose on the other sheep.. there is an interesting article about witnessing and who's responsibility it is.. from the watchtower 2004 3/1 para 20. the great crowd of other sheep have imitated their anointed brothers.

Lily Pie

Field service is not a requirment. The only requirement is believing (pisteuo).

The whole purpose of being a follower of Jesus, is to love God, accept Gods love, and bring others in to love God.

Lets look at the big picture of the four gospels and use Jesus as an example. Jesus always tried to avoid crowds, but the people kept flocking to him because of WHAT he did, and because of WHO he was. Jesus had dinners with sinners. Preached at temples. And yes I suppose he went house to house, where he was invited, to meet with fellow Christians.

Lets face it. How fruitful is door to door minstry anyway? All it does is aggravate people. Hardly encouraging anyone to read the bible fairly and in an inbiased manner.

I think it is admirable for some of those in feild service to continue to do this, In a way. For it can be seen as a display of unwavering faith and courage.... But I would urge people who did this to reconsider it's necessity.

Lily Pie

388

I HATE this religion

by brotherdan in

so today was my first sunday meeting that i didn't go with my wife.

as an update she has decided not to move out right now...because she doesn't have anywhere to go.

but she is giving me the silent treatment.

Lily Pie

It's odd, BrotherD, after reading about your problem a few days ago, I have been thinking about you. Praying for you. I don't know you, and I've only posted on this site a few times. But I feel compelled to care. I know God cares.

You are a Christian. I firmly believe the best way to survive this problem is by trusting God. Talk to God, he will have some ideas for you I am sure. Jeremiah 33:3.

Recognise this truth. When your wife married you, you were both JW's. This religion was the part of the "contract" of that marriage. You are the one who has amended the arrangement, not her. As a result, you are bound, by common sense and love, as her husband, to support her in this religion. Thinking this will help you hold your tongue, and keep you sincere in your support for her choices.

Honour your wife.

Yes, the Spirit will work in her. Through your conduct she will have the opportunity to see possibilities past the Watchtower. 2Corin5:17 - describes you embracing Christ, listen to what God's telling you.

Love Lily Pie

272

Grace According to JW's. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

by Lily Pie in

hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.

i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.

lutherans say.

Lily Pie

Designs : "My Philosphy is Kindness." or "My religion is Kindness."

I see this on keyrings sometimes - I like it...

272

Grace According to JW's. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

by Lily Pie in

hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.

i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.

lutherans say.

Lily Pie

Thanks everyone.

What I really think is a shame, is that JW's, according to many of you, see the *Grace* as practiced in Christendom, as a license to sin. That is not my experience.

This is my experience with JW's. Devout believers, who use thier admitted inability to be perfect, as an excuse for thier hypocrisy. (My Hubby ALWAYS talks about thier hypocrisy, he calls them (JW's) *two faced* - I think thats a generalisation, some are, and some arn't.)

(It's easy to look a hypocrite when you set the standard high, and focus on works over faith and love, and judge each other harshly... poor things)

You can't really argue (from real life experiences we all share) that there is more sin in a Protestant church, then there is in a JW church... So the doctrine of Grace, being inspired by love, can't really be viewed as a sin-creator. We all agree on this I think.

I have many internal conflicts with the doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses. This one- The omitting of Grace, or thier inability to properly explain "undeserved kindness" in thier publications, and to thier congregations - Is the real traversty from a Christian perspective. If there is no Grace, why is there a Crucified Christ? It is whole point, according to Paul... I'm surprised practicing Jehovah's Witnesses havn't picked up on this in thier bible reading.... They read the bible frequently don't they?

I had hoped that this application of "unmerited favour" between mainstream Christianity and the Watchtower would mainly be in agreement, theologically at least. It has always been clear to me that they (JW's) don't really practice it. (Well maybe individual followers do? I don't want to make generalisations.)

272

Grace According to JW's. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

by Lily Pie in

hi, i'm a bit of a lurker on this site occasionally, just to help me understand my jw relative.

i am so curious to ask this question, but i fear asking a practicing jw, because you know, they can be a tad evasive, and maybe defensive too.

lutherans say.

Lily Pie

Wow . This thread has gone off the hook while I've been sleeping. I've got some reading to do.

Lily Pie